Homebuying is one of the largest investments you’ll ever make. Maybe you’re ready, or maybe you’re just curious about what the process looks like. Either way, it’s important that we make this as transparent as possible. It also depends on where you live.
For some of us who live in cities like NYC, for example, my wife and I, it’s hard to stomach something as crazy as-
I wish I was kidding! I’m pretty sure this apartment exists in Manhattan. It’s all about the neighborhood, right? Lucky for me, my wife has a great eye for neighborhoods that are up and coming, but still have a lot of value. that in itself. In this episode of the podcast, “Home Sweet Home,” we are going to explore everything you need to be prepared for when thinking about buying a home.
The process of home buying can be very overwhelming and exhausting, but it’s an incredible accomplishment and something you should be proud of. I hope this episode is helpful in preparing you.
Jordan: Well, this is the tenth house that we've offered on. We're even offering over asking price, most of the time and we're still not getting these what gives
Mesh NARR: [00:00:07] Homebuying sounds exhausting, and if you’re a first time home buyer, there’s a whole mess of things you just won’t know.
This is Talk Money, and I’m your host Mesh (Lakhani), and we’re demystifying all the things your money goes into, empowering you to make better decisions.
On Today’s Episode: First Time Homebuying
According to the Wall Street Journal Home prices have risen by about 50 percent in the last decade, and many of the more affordable markets have shot up even faster. All these factors make it harder to buy a home.
Today we’re going to learn: How to think about buying a home and is it right for you, how to find a realtor, how to find value, make an offer and be competitive, you’re going to have to be competitive, how the mortgage process works and what the future holds. Maybe you don’t think you fit the mold of a traditional buyer, what options exist for you?
My personal experience, I helped my mom buy a home. It was stressful. There were things that we weren’t prepared for, things that we couldn’t even imagine. It all worked out, but even something as standard as getting a mortgage, was surprisingly out of reach. Lessons learned, I’m well prepared for the next go around, but now I want to help you if you’re thinking, even if you’re just THINKING of buying your next home. (beat)
So should you buy a home ?
Jordan: [00:00:07]obviously that is a very personal question for a lot of people and it depends on what you're looking for.
Mesh NARR: [00:00:13] That's my friend Jordan Ghrist. Jordan is a developer in Washington, DC, and has had a ton of experience buying and selling homes. He's built and sold over 20 homes.
Jordan: [00:00:13] I think [00:00:59] everybody. Should aspire to buy their own home, . I think it's. It's definitely more expensive this day and age to buy a home.
Jordan: [00:00:39]k the most important thing you can look at if you're buying in a neighborhood are the comps - the comparables. um it's basically just a home that's very similar to the one that you're looking at. That costs a certain amount. You can bet your bottom dollar. That's probably going to be very similar to the cost that you're going to offer for your own house. [BEAT] [00:01:39] So a good real estate agent is going to send you a list of comps for a place that you may be interested in. They're going to say, all right. Well, if you're looking at a four-bedroom three-bath house, here's another four-bedroom three-bath house in the same neighborhood that went for this price. It's probably going to be pretty similar. That's how real estate goes. everything is looking around and seeing what everybody else is doing in order to give yourself a baseline for what you want to do. [EDIT] If you're looking for a home, you know, number one. You want [00:02:57] something large enough for your you and your family, but number two, you know that there's some room to grow in the price and it's going to appreciate. You certainly want to keep that in mind. I think if you're going to pay top dollar for something that's brand new in a neighborhood that maybe has already been. Priced in the higher range compared to other neighborhoods in the surrounding area that should be you know a little bit of a warning sign for people knowing that you may not be able to sell your home at a profit or even to maintain its value.
Mesh: [00:01:59] I [00:03:59] I think this is like one of those myths here. They're like any home you buys a good investment. Is that actually true?
Jordan: [00:02:05] That's definitely not true. yeah that there are a lot of myths about homeownership, especially in the current real estate climate that are just really dangerous for a lot of people [EDIT] people are moving into cities at a rate. We've never seen in history before because of that you create quite a demand in areas that are that just doesn't have a [00:04:47] lot of housing. If you're if you're looking to make money on a house, you have to look at an area where you can get something that you know is going to is going to raise and value, you know, that may be a little tough for some people because they may be maybe that neighborhood is going to be deemed a little bit less safe than you would prefer. But that's sort of the risk that you take when you get into real estate.
Mesh: How does someone who doesn't like you know it when you see it, like did someone bring someone in with them do they bring some experience with them?
Jordan: [00:02:58] Yeah, so I think if [00:05:58] you're you know, there are two different things number one, if you're going to look for a place that's completely finished. You have to expect the you're going to not only by the house. It's going to be a little bit more expensive than something that you know needs renovation. But you have to pay for the builders profit. Margin. [EDIT] knowing that there are people like me out there that are developers by trade. This is my only job. I will do you know between three and five projects a year?
Mesh NARR: [00:03:27] It's always good to understand how something's priced. Jordan is explaining how he prices the homes he sells, he needs to make a profit.
Jordan: [00:03:37] I like to get something around the twenty percent profit margin range that means you know, if I put in 500, you know, I buy a house for 500 Grand and I put in say 200 Grand more. I need to make a 20 percent profit margin based upon the total investment of that home. So, you know, if I put 200 Grand into this thing, what's 20% of 700 Grand, [00:07:59] [00:08:29]
Mesh NARR: [00:03:59] 20% is a standard solid return for someone to feel good about all the effort, time and capital they've put into an investment
Mesh NARR: Ask yourself if you want to pay that premium when buying something already renovated. If it cost the developer 700k to buy and renovate a home, do YOU really want to pay an additional $140k on top of his costs?
.Jordan: I mean, I think that's sort of just a good rule of thumb for people who are looking for [EDIT] their first home to consider if they're going to buy something brand new
Mesh NARR: [00:05:24] There's no way around it: If you are buying new or renovated you're paying a premium for the cost of that renovation and the profit the developr makes. If you think you want to do it yourself, you're buying a home, knowing that you're going to put money into it and it wont be perfect right away. Ask yourself if you're ready to take that on, and have things stretch out over time. Maybe you'll do your kitchen first, but then when you have enough money later you can finally build that sick bathroom you've always wanted - the one with the infared sauna.
Jordan: [00:06:02] If you're not going to buy something that's been renovated already. Maybe talk to a few Builders talk to a few contractors have find somebody that you trust maybe have them come and take a look at a place. [EDIT] and get their opinions on you know, what it would cost a lot of developers will give you prices based upon the price per square foot. So if they say, you know, I build typically. Add a hundred fifty or a hundred seventy or two [00:12:32] hundred bucks a square foot. Well just take the size of the actual home and multiply that out and then you can sort of see if you want to completely renovate the home. That's probably what it's going to cost you.
Mesh NARR: [00:06:40]So let’s say you know what you want, whether brand new, renovated, or needing renovation. At this point, you’ve found something You. Want. To. Buy.
Jordan: [00:06:50] as both a developer and and as a homeowner myself, I can't tell you how many people have come to my projects [00:13:55] just exasperated by the whole process and they've sort of you know, Hands up at some point and said, alright. Well, this is the tenth house that we've offered on. We're even offering over asking price, most of the time and we're still not getting these what gives I mean, how can we actually get a leg up on this [EDIT]. I mean, I think there are a lot of different means to try to make your offers competitive as possible.
Jordan: [00:07:24] Another key component of this is being pre-approved. I think a lot of people, you know, we'll meet an agent [00:14:54] they'll go out on a Sunday. They'll look at maybe three or four projects. They'll say this is the place we want this. They're not pre-approved and then you know, they have to go through that whole process with a bank and it sucks because they really feel like they found something that they want to offer on.
[00:15:43]Mesh NARR: [00:07:43] Ok, we're going to hear the term pre-approved several times during this episode., it's important that you know what it means. Being pre-approved means you have been vetted for for a mortgage by a bank or lender. You've submitted all your financial information and the mortgage bank has said, yes we are going to loan you X number of dollars for you to purchase your home. This is essential to when you want to put an offer on your home, because it may come down to which buyer is able to move quickest in the process.
Jordan: [00:07:43] in a competitive market you're going to offer on and lose out on several properties before you find the one that's going to [00:16:52] work for you.
Mesh NARR: [00:08:30] But of course, getting pre-approved is only one step. There are so many different costs bundled into this big, life-changing transaction.
Jordan: [00:08:30] there are transfer fees. There are closing costs. There are taxes. all of these things come into into play and they are going to add to the purchase price. So if you're pre-approved for. You know say six hundred thousand dollars or something like that, you know and you want to buy a house and you want to offer it 600 Grand. Well, that's not going to be the end of your costs. You're certainly going to have to pay for [00:17:39] more more cost that you didn't foresee.
Jordan: [00:09:02] You also have real estate taxes. You have the transfer tax in DC which amounts to about one and a half percent a little bit less than that, but. That [00:18:32] comes off of the sale price. You have other various closing costs like the title work. So when you buy a place you are required to be transferred clean title, which means if ownership is disputed -- say, you know a family owns a house and you know, the owner of the house has children and the owner dies and the children inherit a portion of the house that can be disputed who actually owns the house and who's able to make those decisions. And this came into play for this particular house, I [00:19:59] believe so, you know clean title is important. You want to be able to have insurable title as well. So that there is an issue you are insured and you don't have to pay for legal fees. [EDIT] it sounds really scary and intimidating but at the end of the day as long as you know, That you're being provided clean title. You should be confident in the fact that you're buying something that that is legally going going to hold water. on top of that. You know, you may have a pest inspection. You may [00:20:41] have Home Inspection items that you have requested and a lot of times the seller will pay for that. But you know, that can be a dispute as well. Sometimes you may want to put some extra dollars into make a couple customizable changes by the seller. You know legal fees and title research and all that stuff. Those are numbers that are pretty controllable. But when you get into say say, I bought a 1.6 million dollar house as opposed to 600,000 that transfer tax of about one and a half percent can obviously become a pretty big deal. So just keep that in mind.
Mesh NARR: [00:10:59][00:21:59] [00:22:29] Two other costs you should consider. The first one is the property tax- which is the tax on your home by the local government, that helps fund public schools, the fire department, police, sewage treatment and other items. The second cost to think about is Home Owner's Association Fee, or the HOA. These are the fees that pay for the upkeep of your building, if you are buying a condo, or the landscaping if you're buying a single family home in a neighborhood. They can also be known as condo fees.
Jordan: [00:10:59] really important in this day and age when with a lot of people living in the city condo fees are something that can absolutely make or break somebody's take home pay when you have a mortgage payment when you own a place and you don't factor in the condo fees, which if you have a nice building with nice amenities can be really expensive. Some of these condo fees can. Can really change your life and mean that you're going to be what you know, what we kind of call house [00:23:32] poor.
Mesh NARR: [00:12:00] House poor. When you're planning for your home, you really need to think about your budget. Sure, your down payment is going to be liquid cash that you're going to invest into your home. But now you're going to have monthly payments for all these fees and loans, and every year you’re going to have taxes. Talk with your real estate agent about what these numbers will look like. How much is your monthly income, or your take home pay? Is it going to cover all these costs?
Jordan: Well, if you have a substantial condo fee payment, that's money that you owe every month. And if you're not making payments on that that can get you into some legal hot water. So it's important to know that that is definitely something in cities and condo buildings that's going to affect your bottom line
Mesh: [00:12:51] What type of Maintenance would you expect is there? Is there like of the 20 homes have you done is it there is or something that keeps coming up always?
Jordan: [00:12:59] [EDIT] you know utilities think a lot of people don't realize if they go from renting to buying. You know, you're going to have to pay for all the utilities that may have been included in your previously so that includes obviously water sewer gas electric cable. These can obviously Mount to quite a bit and then [00:26:21] maintenance maintenance is big one Mesh, I think to own a home and depending on the type of home like if you own a detached single-family house out the suburbs. You've got to take care of your lawn, you know, you have to maintain your gutters and your roof your siding or your brick, you know, keep your sidewalks and your your lead walk clear of snow if there was ever a snowstorm.
Mesh NARR: [00:13:54] Of course, some of these are examples of services your HOA might provide. You'll be paying for them whether you want them or not.
Jordan: [00:14:04] Maybe your there's a service that your entire neighborhood bands together to pay for mean. These are things that you also definitely have to factor in. as far as coming up with an amount that you should expect to pay. It's hard to say because again, I think that is really neighborhood. But I think it would be helpful again to bring you real estate agent back into this ask them if they can get you know from the seller kind of what they were expecting to pay every month [00:28:51] in utilities. [BEAT]
Mesh [00:14:52] . Let's talk about the actual offer on the home. you've done your research. You found the home it works within your budget you like the developer, you know [00:29:54] all things you're ready to make an offer. How does that process work?
Jordan: [00:15:04] If you like the house chances are somebody else's going to like the house too and It becomes a competition at this point. So how can you make your offer more attractive just you know aside from the sheer dollar amount? Well number one is an escalation clause escalation clauses come into play a lot in a competitive housing market. What that means is this if you offer a price on a home, you can insert an escalation clause [00:30:34] which then what it essentially means is your price that you would offer on the home goes up. To try to beat the next highest offer.
Mesh NARR: [00:15:38] This is like eBay, you set the highest amount you’re willing to spend on an item, but you hope to get it cheaper. If there’s a lot of competition, you’ll automatically stay in the game by upping your bid, but you’ll never go above the amount you’ve set as your maximum price.
Jordan: That's [00:31:59] a big time. Advantage for people that really want to get a property if you are able to offer a little bit more money, but you're not sure that you want to just throw it out on the first go-around escalation clauses make you much more competitive.
Mesh: do you put a cap on that though? Because you don't want to get to a point where like shit. I just offered 650 for a home. I don't actually have 650 but you know, I got the home now and it's way over my budget.
Jordan: [00:16:26] obviously be responsible know [00:32:42] what your cap is what your absolute cap is because a lot of times if you're going to offer a cap on this escalation clause it's going to come into play if it's a competitive house instead of just offering 650 Grand though out of the blue, maybe offer less and include that escalation clause so that you're protecting yourself and trying to pay as little above the next highest offer as possible.
Mesh: [00:16:52]Hmm. so that's one way of being competitive. And okay,. What were your biggest mistakes? Of all the homes that you've bought - 20 [00:33:55] homes - tell us some of the bigger mistakes that you learned that you wouldn't want to make again.
Jordan: you know mistakes that I've seen people make they go after something just because they're tired of the process. Look. if it were easy, everybody would be doing it. It becomes really stressful and and is really a tough process to wrap your head around you know, it makes a lot of sense to surround yourself with as many experts as possible and get all the different opinions that you can. I think to [00:34:59] find a real estate agent that you trust. it's just again that's part of the due diligence process. I think you need to have the real estate agent down before you look for any houses at all. It's not only finding the agent, but then it's knowing their process getting some examples of some things that they've closed before.
Mesh NARR: [00:17:45] I spoke with several first-time homebuyers before putting this episode together. the main thing they agreed upon was absolutely find yourself yourself a great real estate agent. Even with the ability to look at properties online with platforms like Zillow, you still need someone to walk you through this process. But how do you find a great realtor
Marian: [00:00:02] Sure name is Marion Roussan with compass real estate here in Washington, DC?
Mesh NARR: [00:00:08] I asked Compass real estate agent Marian Roussan. Compass is one of the largest real estate brokerage platforms, that have agents all throughout the country.
Marian: I've been in real estate, for goodness coming up on about eight years
Mesh NARR: [00:00:23][00:00:53] marian walks us through how to find an agent, and what one should expect from a great realtor.
Mesh: [00:00:23] [EDIT] given now all the resources people think they can do it on their own. What is the benefit? An importance of using a realtor when buying your first home.
Marian: [00:00:44] It's a big process. Right? I mean it's for many people. It's an it's an unknown process. So I think the resources online nowadays. First of all, they're amazing. There's never been as much information available as there is uh [00:01:44] today. [EDIT] So it can be a little bit of information overload of times. And frankly not all of that information we [00:02:43] see online is accurate or frankly tells a whole story. So when you see for instance a sale price online, you know, is that the net sale price not usually no, it's usually the gross sales price.So there could have been some concessions that went back and forth between buyer and seller throughout the transaction, but that information is not typically revealed online.
Mesh: [00:01:50] Right. And someone who's a first-time home buyer? What is the best process for them to find the right realtor
Marian: [00:01:58] you know s with anything I would [00:03:58] probably interview three Realtors, right? I would tap into your group of friends. Hey, have you used one in the past that you recommend go online see who in your area has received a good number of reviews. go out for coffee with some grab some time with them on the phone. You know, you want to see who's going to be the right fit for you experience wise, communication wise, and just general temperament. [00:04:38] You're going to be spending a ton of time with this person or team and you just want to make sure you've done the diligence up front because you're going to need to trust them throughout the process. And It would be terrible If you're second-guessing any of the information that they were providing to you during the process. So some things you want to ask it. What is their annual volume? It's not necessarily how long they've been in the business, right? You can encounter an agent who's been in the business for 20 years because only doing a deal year, that's probably not as effective as somebody who is seeing more [00:05:08] and more contracts to come through. their on top of what the market is doing on a day-to-day. So that might be a better fit for you.
Mesh NARR: [00:03:27] And when you find that perfect realtor? They're going to help guide you through the process and the noise. Maybe you're a family who is sensitive about the school district your kids will have access to, Maybe you want a neighborhood that's a little rough around the edges but in 5 years its gonna have a Whole Foods, maybe you want access to public transportation, or you want space for your dog to run around in. The realtor will help you find the neighborhood that balances your needs with you budget.
Marian: [00:03:27]you know when it comes to the schools you're going to be competing, you know will schools different school districts command a higher price in terms of property. Yes, you know, I can point to specific instances here in my market where absolutely, you know, the homes are valued a little bit lesser because the school district itself is not as highly regarded. [EDIT] and everybody frankly is going to Value different things differently, right? So for instance last week, it was a very highly walkable area. I had a client who she valued to the garage parking space more highly than say outdoor space right highly walkable. Less more congestion less space for cars that parking spot commanded a higher value in her opinion that's a outdoor space where she could just as easily walk down the street, you know be outside at [00:09:37] 1 of 5 coffee shops. Value varies depending on what you're looking for. And what is valuable to you? I think the best rule of thumb is time in the market is where you're going to make your money versus timing the market. So if you can find a home and a neighborhood that's going to grow with you and grow with your life. You should be able to stay in that home longer. Therefore you should be able to weather Market fluctuations a little bit better than say [00:10:34] somebody who potentially purchase a property that's not going to grow with them and or be worthwhile for them in three years four years when they have grown their life, they've gotten a dog that gotten married. Maybe they've had baby and now they need to move. So I think the best the best sound advice is find a property that's going to grow with you for several years because the longer you can hang on to that property typically speaking the better off you're going to be.
Mesh NARR: [00:05:54][00:11:54] your agent will also know what metrics you should be paying attention to
Marian: [00:05:54] we have an enormous amount of information that kind of comes from the source at our fingertips. And if your realtor isn't providing it to you ask them for it. I think looking at a property across several different metrics is is the most valuable. so is price per square foot a valuable metric. Absolutely. [EDIT] So I think you want to look at price per square foot. You want to look at original list price to sold price ratio or properties in that neighborhood. Are they going up and over ask price or are we seeing a little bit of depriest not depreciation necessarily, but when we seeing a little bit of a softening in that market, right? [EDIT] Right? Let's look at sold prices. What's the past? Let's look at under contract prices, you know, and then let's look at what are asking price is currently and I think looking at all of those metrics into totality is going to really start to get a sense of hey, what is the appropriate value for this property. And I think another kind of valuable item. It's not a net metric [00:13:39] necessarily but having your realtor speak with the other realtor. Hey, what is what is the offer landscape looking like but you have a lot of interest rate there a lot of people circling or is it being a kind of not popping as much as. We had expected it to be
Mesh NARR: [00:07:43] This is a big investment. And it takes time to truly understand if you're getting a good price. Is the home you buy similar in price to comparables - the similar homes in the neighborhood. If not, why? If cheaper, what renovations does it need, if more expensive, what are you getting for that? Is there still value in buying that neighborhood, or is it already reached it's maximum potential? This is what your realtor should be helping you with, a good realtor. Let them earn their commision. But be aware of these factors and test them on it.
Mesh: [00:07:43] what do you think are the biggest mistakes that are made by first-time home buyers or just generally home buyers [00:16:52] when it comes to this process
Marian: [00:08:31] when it when it comes to first-time homebuyers what I'm seeing is being too cautious and losing out on great properties out of fear. Right? I am going to kind of overcompensate potentially on contingencies within a contract because I am a little bit leery of what could go wrong. [EDIT]but let's really talk about that. Let's understand the risks associated with a home inspection contingency.
Mesh NARR: [00:09:28] It's all about being prepared. Speaking of which, what are these contingencies Marian just mentioned?
Marian: [00:09:28] [EDIT] contingencies are ifs in a contract right? I will purchase this property. If I get financing, I will purchase this property if the bank finds value in the property that I have it under contract for. I will purchase this property if the property and the structure itself is [00:19:41] to my liking. So. Home Inspection contingency have a home inspector go into the home whether that is after the contract has been ratified at or before the contract has been ratified to really look at the property make sure it is a sound property [EDIT] Of course, they can't look in walls per se but they can give you a good sense of what to be aware of with the property whether that be maintenance items moving forward and or [00:20:31] existing issues. It's basically [EDIT] getting a physical for your home. Right you go to the doctor every year to get a physical having a home inspector come into a home and kind of take a look at the help and really kind of look at the electrical panel. Look at the plumbing. Look at the roof. Look at the exterior of the property both in a condo and not in a condo you want to make sure that the Integrity of that property is is to your liking right?
Mesh: [00:10:52] I was talking to a developer who said if you're very comfortable and you know that this is going to be a lot of [00:21:52] renovation and you're planning on doing that anyways, and let's say that you don't end up doing a home inspection because you know, it's going to take time off the offer. Is that something that you see that happens?
Marian: [00:11:12] I think that also depends on the tolerance of the purchaser. So I might refine that a little bit let's say you're a first time homebuyer and you're going to be doing a good amount of renovation. Yes that that developer was exactly correct. There's no reason to go inspect the plumbing. If you're just going [00:22:48] to gut the entire place and you know redo the plumbing that would that would absolutely be probably not in the best interest of everybody - but I think it is beneficial, to what extent are you going to be renovating? Right? You know, if you are in a competitive situation, let's have a home inspector go out there before you even put in an offer with the permission of the seller and let's see if the foundation is good. Right because if we're going to be gutting a home and we're budgeting for that [00:23:54] but yet along the way we find that we actually need to redo some of the foundational parts. That could be a gotcha that can blow up the budget . So I think you know there's kind of a balance in between those two. I could absolutely see going into a home. If you're going to level it, there's no real there's no real benefit to doing home inspection. But depending on the level of renovation you're going to be doing I think it's worthwhile.
Mesh: [00:12:22] and appraisal contingency?
Marian: [00:12:26]. So appraisal contingency - a quick step back for [00:24:58] context. There were three ways to Value property, right? There's the appraised value which is what the lender thinks it's worth. There is the assessed value which is what the government thinks it's worth, and there's market value, which is what you think it is worth and you kind of want all those to be relatively in the same range, right? It's ideal if the assessed value what the government thinks it's worth and which property taxes are based off of - it's ideal that's super low because you don't want high taxes. The appraised value. That's what [00:25:28] the bank thinks it's worth. Right? You want the bank to come out and say "you know what you made a killing on this - this property we value this property $100,000 more than you actually paid for it." That would be fantastic.
And then the second one market value - you kind of want market value somewhere between those two data points. So when it comes to appraised value and the appraisal contingency the appraisal contingency, if you're getting a loan is going to be kind of a second check box if you will in terms of [00:26:57] value, so the bank will go out and say " hey Aaron, this is great. You are putting 20% down. We are going to be bringing 80% of the money to the table. we are bringing the lion's share of the money going to the table. We want to make sure that we're making a good investment as well." So what the bank will do is go out and make sure they will look at comparables. And what they will do is they will assign a value to the property.Now what you want to do kind of upfront is say, alright, let's let's make sure we're putting in an [00:27:49] offer that will potentially not come in over the appraised value, right?
Mesh NARR: So let's say you do put in an offer and it turns out to be higher than the appraised value of the property? Well in this scenario the bank is only going to put in 80% of the appraised value - to them, that appraised value is all it is really worth. That means that if a property has an appraisal value of 450k, but you put in an offer for 500k ... you are entirely responsible for the 50thousand dollar difference. The bank is only going to help with 80% of the lower price. That means you'll be on the hook for 20% of lower price AND the entire price difference. [BEAT] So this is where the appraisal contingency in the contract comes into play.
Marian: [00:14:06]you might decide you know, what I can't [00:29:56] stomach overpaying for this property. I'm going to walk away and that's what that appraisal contingency would allow you to do what allow you to renegotiate the contract price down to the appraised value because in that example you're only getting 80% of the appraised value from bank and you're sitting here with a contract price that's higher than that
Mesh: [00:15:21] and in terms of making an offer. first time home buyers What should they be ready for when they make an offer? Obviously, you should be pre-approved for a [00:30:58] mortgage. What's your checklist of things?
Marian: [00:15:33] my first recommendation and discussion point is have we spoken to lenders yet? Have you spoken to local lender? Specifically those who know this Marketplace the best. Those who specialize in home mortgage. Have you had a chance to speak with them and get a good sense of what you're comfortable affording because it's not what you can't afford. It's what you're comfortable affording. Right? So [00:31:59] getting pre-approved is the first step and that will not only help you but it will also help your realtor to kind of refine the conversation to say, "okay we're looking at condominiums with a condo fee or coops with a co-op or condo fee of X" and that is how we can help to kind of narrow in to find that specific property that will help move the conversation forward. So I think it's it's getting pre-approved upfront. Spending some real quality time, you know two [00:32:52] or so hours going through all of that contract paperwork. Let's get those questions answered up front so that when the time does come to put in that offer, it happens super fast. And the worst thing that you could be doing is as a buyer whether its first time we repeat is signing paperwork that you don't know what you're saying. You don't really understand the ramifications of what you're signing is potentially the worst situation you can be.
Mesh: [00:16:53] how do you tell people to find the right lender. what are your suggestions? For [00:33:56] folks.
Marian: [00:17:00] in a competitive market the bigger banks don't tend to be winning, right? They don't tend to be providing the level of service for the time frames that are required to get a deal done. I had a potential clients say Hey, you know what I use USAA and I previously got something from SoFi. Which is fantastic. But, when it comes to purchasing a home. What you want to do is find a [00:34:45] lender who specializes in home mortgage [EDIt] the hint there is mortgage is typically in the the name. If you know First Home Mortgage, you know, First Savings mortgage insert name mortgage. you want to find a reputable mortgage lender one who works at a firm that specializes in it and somebody who's not going to sell you a checking account or savings account or what have you. the smaller local mortgage Banks. [00:35:58] They're the ones who were going to have smaller contingency time frames, right? So for instance big Bank might say Mary, [EDIT] We can get your loan underwritten in 30 days. Uh A smaller mortgage lender might be able to say Mary and this is great. I can get it done in seven. I can get it done in 14 something a little bit sm- shorter. So your kind of putting your seller hat on if you're looking at two contracts that are identical but you know [00:36:53] one has a financing contingency of seven days and the other one has a financing contingency of 30 days you as the seller, with everything else being equal, you're probably going to say, you know what this person's getting through the the financing woods faster. This, if it does fall apart is going to fall apart faster. I can then put it back on the market sooner.
Mesh NARR: [00:18:56] Real quick, One more contigency to go over, I promise. Financing contigency means that you'll move forward on the contract of the home, If the finacning or specifically the mortgage from the bank is approved. Depending on the bank you've chosen, some take less time to make a decision than others. Being a pre approved helps, because it means you've done a lot of the work up front and provided all the necesary information, and it will allow for the bank to move quicker to make their final decision.
Marian: I'm more apt to go with with the individual who's working with, you know, let's call him John over at XYZ mortgage. I can actually pick up the phone and talk to John. I don't have to dial 1 800 and oops, you know what they're closed on the weekends and it's highly likely you're not going to find your home Monday through Friday 9 to 5.
Mesh: [00:19:48]that is very good advice given especially all the new lenders that exist online. which brings me to my next question. cash versus [00:39:58] mortgage - does it matter? [EDIT] Do sellers react better cash?
Marian: [00:20:13] I sellers do react a little bit better to cash. depending on the property how long it's been on the market you mighthave the opportunity if you're not having to work with a lender if you're not having to complete an appraisal -- you've basically stricken two contingencies right there. There might [00:40:56] be a little bit of leeway in terms of pricing, right? Hey, I am a purchaser. I'm bringing a cleaner offer to you as a result. I would like a, you know a little bit of a haircut on the price. Depending on the market that may or may not happen. From a seller's perspective cash is usually king.
Mesh NARR: [00:21:14][00:42:44] However, This is about budgeting for yourself. What's the opportunity cost to investing ALL of your cash on one deal? After all, you could invest your money elsewhere to diversify so all your eggs are not in just one basket. Maybe you should keep your cash on hand for any future planning. So, maybe you shouldn't make a cash offer just to get a large deal done. That said, there are some companies out there tackling this very issue, and we'll take a look at them in the next segment, after the break
John Teweles Interview
Mesh NARR: [00:00:00] The mortgage is probably going to be the most important part of your whole home buying process. The mortgage is the amount of money you borrow from the bank to finance your home. The bank charges you interest for that loan, and as you pay it back, you start to owning a greater percentage of your home, on top of what your down payment got you.
John: [00:00:26] a mortgage is just a vehicle that enables someone to [00:00:56] purchase a house. There's very few people that have cash and could pay for the entire purchase of a home without taking out a loan.
Mesh NARR: [00:00:38] That's John Teweles, a dear friend of mine. He's spent over three decades in the mortgage industry and is currently a lender at Capital Mortgage Funding, one of the largest mortgage banks in the country. John explains to us how the process works.
John: So mortgage is a loan [00:01:57] that is secured by the property that you're buying and could be payable anywhere from 10 to 30 years. there's a lot of actually a lot of programs out there right now for first-time home-buyers that offer a lot of flexibility.
Mesh: [00:01:15] and what have you seen, you know to get a mortgage. Is there a range is there like an exact number? I've heard 20% I hear ten percent what's important to have for your down payment?
John: [00:01:29] But [00:02:59] by and large, on average for first-time home buyer is anywhere from five to ten percent down payment. We don't see a lot of first-time homebuyers with a 20% down payment though that certainly is preferable because there will not be mortgage insurance with at least a 20% down payment.
Mesh: [00:01:52] can you explain that what what mortgage insurance is and then where it kicks in in terms of the percentage that you [00:03:29] put down?
John: [00:02:00] Sure. Mortgage insurance is really to protect the lender. So if someone decides to put less than 20% down, there is mortgage insurance in one way or another it could be in an increase interest rate and be built in there or it could be on a monthly basis as well
Mesh NARR: [00:02:18] I want to pause here and explain a few things. When a mortgage bank lends you money to buy a home, they want to make sure they're going to get the money they lent you back, and they want to know that you also have skin in the game. Your skin in the game, is your down payment. The more you give, the more of the house you own, which means the less money you borrow, which means the less interest you pay. When you give less than 20% down payment, the bank wants to add an extra cushion of safety, which will be mortgage insurance,
John: [00:02:18] So in case of defaults it covers a certain percentage of the loan for the lender [00:06:48]
Mesh NARR: [00:03:18] That said, mortgage insurance is an additional cost to your monthly payment. So while you put down less money in the down payment, your monthly pay out is more.
Mesh: [00:03:30] you mentioned there are some programs for folks - government programs - where you're putting it, you know, 3% down or a little bit more than that. What qualifies you for that?
John: [00:03:41] uh the qualification standards are a little bit tighter than they would be for normal loan. So generally most of those programs do require at least a 680 FICO score.
Mesh NARR: If you don't know what a FICO score is, it essentially is a credit rating that's out of 800. It's what a lender looks at to determine how risky you are. 680 and above, you're usually in good shape. I check my score using Nerdwallet or CreditKarma
John: [00:03:56] every lender utilizes your FICO score for purposes of what your rate is going to be as well as what the mortgage insurance rate is going to be
Mesh NARR: [00:04:20] And your credit score will be a factor in the pre-approval process. But even if you have good credit there's a whole bunch of documentation you should be prepared with.
John: [00:04:32] So things like W-2s, and paycheck stubs, tax returns. If someone self-employed or gains a lot of their income through uh commission or bonuses, and then information and documentation on assets. So what is going to be used for the down payment and the closing costs? And the lender will need to collect bank or credit union or investment account statements. [00:09:32] If the money for the down payment is coming from a gift there will be requirements for that? Including a gift letter from the donor? And then
Mesh NARR: [00:05:09]Seems like a lot, right?So lets say you're approved. You might have forgotten by now what exactly that means, let's remind you.
John: [00:05:09] we're approving this buyer for the maximum monthly mortgage payment. which then we will translate into: here's how much of a purchase price, here is [00:10:48] how much of a loan amount in and compute what the down payments going to be as well as the monthly payment. It's difficult for a lender to approve you strictly on a loan amount because technically we're looking at the debt-to-income is a major part of this
Mesh NARR: [00:05:50] For a mortgage lender to decide how much of a loan they are willing to give you, they're going look at your debt to income ratio, which is a percentage of how much of your monthly earnings, go out to your monthly expenses. You take all your monthly expenses and divide them by your monthly income from your job, and you get a % number. The lower that number, the less risky you are as a borrower. The higher the number, it means that more of your monthly income is going out to pay your debt, which makes you more risky to lend to.
John: [00:05:50] And then I think even more importantly than that, Mesh is what is someone comfortable with? And we want to look at where they are now and what the new payment is going to be so if someone is going from renting and paying $2,000 a month and buying a house they're now at $3,500 a month - now that is referred to as payment shock. Is this buyer going to be [00:13:55] able to handle that and if someone is at the maximum debt-to-income ratio. It may be very challenging.
Mesh: [00:07:09] Is that really more the well, maybe that home specifically is too expensive for them and you know, they can lower that cost by going for something less. And if they don't want something less than maybe they just continue to wait till they've saved up more money and.
John: [00:07:22] it's a gut level thing. So there is a difference between what we can approve someone for and what they're truly what's truly in their best interest. [00:14:57] And only they can decide that. But I think with a good lender whether they're a broker or mortgage Banker, they should be able to bring that up to you.
Mesh: [00:07:49] right
John: [00:07:50] and you know the other piece of advice which we certainly don't mind giving is maybe you need to wait. You need more of a down payment. Maybe your [00:15:50] income is going to increase at a certain point and maybe now is not the best time for you to buy.
Mesh NARR: [00:08:05] But let's say it IS the right time for you to buy. So how much does this loan cost you? Well, aside from the amount you are borrowing, pay attention to the rate and the term. [BEAT] The mortgage rate determine the amount of interest you pay on an annual basis, broken down into monthly payments.
John: [00:08:27] I don't know that anyone is [00:16:57] ever satisfied with the rate. They get no matter how low rates have gotten and it's human nature. We all want to get the lowest rate we possibly can If we're borrowing money. um Challenging thing is for someone to find out really what is the true rate for your individual situation. The best thing I can tell someone is probably to compare rates to start with with a couple different lenders. Give them the same criteria. Do it on the same day. So you're [00:17:49] comparing apples versus Apples because rates can change on daily basis generally there's not a big difference between rates out there. . The important thing I think is getting truly a bona fide rate quote from a respected lender
Mesh: [00:09:20] can you tell us about the term. Obviously, this is the amount of time that you are paying off your loan to the bank, ? [00:18:59] This is something that goes back and forth for people a 10-year versus a 30-year
John: [00:09:35] Yes, so I would say that as far as for first-time home buyers, probably 90 to 95% of the mortgages we do are a 30-year term. Reason being is the payment is much more affordable when it's stretched out over 30 years rather than we can go as short as actually five years, but . Your loan is going to be a lot [00:19:58] higher, so when someone says to you, well, do you want a 30 year fixed or 15-year fixed just make certain that it is fixed for life of the loan
Mesh: [00:10:09] And that means the rate is fixed?
John: [00:10:11] Yes. So the rate is locked in for the entire loan unlike an adjustable rate mortgage where the rate could change depending on the frequency as often as maybe every year. So most first-time home buyers we recommend and I we're pretty [00:20:59] conservative about this is to go with a fixed rate product. And typically it does end up to be a 30-year term just because if you do go with a 15-year which we'd love to see people go with the payment is typically somewhere in the range of 25 to 35 percent higher
Mesh: [00:10:50] But in that case for a 15-year fix that person's paying less interest over time.
John: [00:10:58] Absolutely they are - um [00:21:52] it - It's a tremendous difference so they have to be willing to make the commitment to that higher payment and the reward for that is yes at the. Yeah, if you look at month by month on an amortization schedule, which shows you how much goes to principle and how much goes to interest it's amazing. How much is on a 15 year versus a 30-year on a 30-year your first few years. So little of your payment is going to principal. it does make a dramatic difference.
Adena Hefetz Interview
Mesh NARR: [00:00:00] At this point, I think we have a good understanding on how to be prepared to buy your first home. We learned how to find the right realtor, find a home that works for you and think about the value you’re getting, and finally how the mortgage process works for when you’re ready to pull the trigger. I do think it’s important to learn more of where the future of home buying is going. There are so many tech companies our there trying to make it easier for us to buy a home, Compass Real Estate being one of them. Another one is Open Door, they let you buy and sell homes online Zillow is now getting into that game as well. They are known as I-buyers. I had the chance to talk to Adena Hefetz, the co founder of Divvy homes, a company that is helping home buyers put a down payment on a home with a rent to buy model. She’s backed by some of the best investors in the world, and she was kind enough to give her outlook on the space.
Adena: [00:00:00] Divvy fundamentally creates homeowners. we partner with renters on their path to home ownership. So we help them with everything from first starting to find a home. We then purchase the home on behalf of them and we let them rent back the home from us and put part of their [00:02:45] payment every month towards towards building equity in the home. As they start to build up equity in the home over time. They have a buyout right and whenever they're ready we will give them credit for for the equity they built up as their down payment and they can buy out the house and its entirety. This is important to us because we feel like the path to home ownership has become more complicated over time and more challenging. And so we love the idea of helping provide a beautiful [00:03:52] Bridge from from starting off renting and to fully owning a home.
Mesh: [00:02:04] Where do you think the issue with home ownership has come from? It seems like it's a common question that keeps occurring is why you know a generation of Millennials or the people after them aren't buying homes.
Adena: [00:02:18]so I actually break it down into two areas. The first one is there more financially complex and what financially complex means is a few different things, which is one: [00:04:48] coming out of school with more student debt, which is just something that that prior generations didn't have but also things like changing jobs more frequently or having multiple income streams. So this is someone who's the teacher who also is an Uber driver on the side and maybe delivers for Door Dash. All these complexities are really challenging to underwrite an individual. And really make it hard and difficult to get a mortgage. So Financial complexity is one
Adena: I'd say the second [00:05:18] thing is just savings and down payment. so the median amount of savings in the US across all assets, any liquid, is about four thousand dollars the average down payment about $30,000. So the result of these two things Financial complexity and not having a down payment means that people are staying perennial renters. So on average in the 1970s people rented for call it two to three years today that number is close to six years. And I think that this sort of added [00:06:36] complexity Financial complexity in Americans lives has been really what has caused people to struggle with accessing mortgages.
Mesh: [00:03:38]is there something that we're missing like maybe these borrowers are super risky. They shouldn't be buying homes in the first place or is it that there isn't a way or a method or a new way for people to do this? are you taking a ton more risk with folks that maybe shouldn't be owning a home in the first place?
Adena: [00:03:57] um post-recession Fannie Mae as [00:07:57] well as all the GOCs really tighten their underwriting requirements, which I think was actually quite advisable. And so there is this population that just fundamentally are too risky and cannot access a mortgage today because of their credit background and credit history. However, that's not the entire population and that's not everyone there's an entire population of folks who make a steady income are high earners, but maybe just our little bit more complex and just haven't saved up their down payment. So I would say I'd bucket those [00:08:27] two out. The problem is is that we've completely wiped out offering either of those buckets access to home ownership. Whereas I think that you know, there's there's probably a difference between people who are just fundamentally risky and shouldn't be given a mortgage versus just don't fit into the the typical background of being a man and woman who are married and have worked the same job for the last 15 years.
Mesh: [00:04:54] Yeah, I live in an apartment in Brooklyn it is expensive to rent. If I [00:09:58] was to buy that place would be significantly more... Because I don't have the down payment. But I could potentially be paying the monthly payments Is that who you're talking about in terms of the people it's folks that don't have let's say the cash amount for a down payment. But they are healthy in terms of earnings - can make regular payments - they just need help.
Adena: [00:05:20] it is that population. It's also though me. Like I've applied for a mortgage a couple of times and I can't access a mortgage. Why because I'm the founder of a start-up [00:10:53] right and I am seen as fundamentally being risky because I have an early stage startup company and I haven't worked there long enough and I don't have a long enough job history, so I kind of fall into the bucket. Even if I do have the down payment available, right? And someone else might fall into the bucket because they just have call it $100,000 of student debt and no matter how much you have an income. It's very hard to offset that. there's a lot of financial complexity that exists today that just didn't exist when mortgages were created which was like in [00:11:58] the 1930s.
Mesh NARR: [00:06:01] Things are different now in comparison to 80-90 years ago. Things are different now in comparison to TWENTY years ago. We have more student debt because universities are more expensive than they were in the past and salaries have not risen at the same pace. If you're in the growing gig economy, you'd be lucky to even have a grasp of what your annual income will be. Is this notion of the American dream real? Is renting better than buying? This is intimidating and complex, but there is an upside. It bring us back to our question from the beginning of the episode, should you aspire to buy home?
Adena: [00:06:45] from a pure economic perspective. Owning a home has proven to be a tremendous value add for creating wealth for family. [BEAT] owning a home has financially just a tremendous amount of [00:13:56] benefits and the reason why is one. You're investing in a house and that house is generally increasing in value, which means that the money that you're putting into that house is increasing and compounding over time. Number two. It's very hard to take money out of the house. And so essentially when you start to fall on Hard Times generally you pull your money out of the stock market or something like that you generate to keep your money in a house, which means that the Compound Effect gets gets quite a bit more multiplied.
[00:14:26] The third thing is there aren't many investment vehicles that you get to live inside of you. Can't - even if you invest in the S&P 500 you can't live inside the S&P 500 and you can live inside a house, right? And you can get tremendous leverage on it. So overall owning a home has proven to have tremendous positive impacts on wealth. So there's always going to be population who really values renting because it has tremendous flexibility. the American dream is going strong and most folks do truly want to own [00:15:55] and there are tremendous Financial benefits to doing so.
Mesh: [00:08:03] Okay, your Target customer. How do they qualify for this? What's the process? How much do you charge them? Can you walk me through that flow?
Adena: [00:08:12] Yep. So the way it works for customers is they first land on our website? It's divvyhomes.com and. From there we put them through a really short application. So it's usually less than like three minutes. and from there. We're able to give them a budget to say, okay based off of everything. You've told us about [00:16:33] your financial profile. We think a safe amount for you to pay is - let's call it a thousand dollars a month - and this thousand dollars a month translates roughly into a set home price and will give you both those things and we will partner you with an agent. The things that we're looking at for this individual to qualify is we do do a soft credit check. So we check their credit history. We check their income to make sure they have enough income to support the amount of payments and then we just ask them how much they have saved up so we can see if [00:17:49] there's any initial cushion that they can you know have just in terms of payments. So the real perspective of what we're trying to get at is: here is a safe budget which for a lot of folks coming up with your own budge is just challenging. And so for us we say don't worry about thinking about this. We're going to tell you what this is. We're going to send you them with an agent and you can go out home shopping. And when you're ready to put in an offer on a home, the agent initiates that offer with Divvy and Divvy goes in to purchase a home on your [00:18:52] behalf. The benefit of this is like buying a home is really hard. I don't know about you, but you'll probably by about one home in your entire life. Divvy, we bought hundreds of homes. Um and so when we go in to bid on a home, we know the right price that we should be offering we know to look at things. Like are there brown spots on the roof which indicates that maybe there's going to be an issue with that home. We can do these assessments that would just be challenging for first-time home buyer and can be almost their trusted partner along the way
Mesh: [00:09:57]you by the home and then they're [00:19:57] essentially renting the home from you but building up a cushion to eventually be a down payment? Can you talk about that second half of how they end up owning the home?
Adena: [00:10:10] so when we put an offer in on a home prior to closing we have the the tenant put into percent of the home value, so they have two percent. We have 98 percent. and that's really important because we want them to have a little bit of skin in the game. We purchased this house just for them. So I started by putting into percent of home value. That's not a fee. That's [00:20:40] their ownership percentage. then every single month they make one monthly payment. Let's say that payment is about $1000. generally about 250 of that $1,000 will go towards building equity in the home and then 750 will be our our Revenue which is rent. So that's just pure rent. That $250 turns into Equity that they own in the home. And so your two percent ownership that you're starting with goes up to 2.1% the next month 2.2% next [00:21:32] month 2.3 percent the next month, we build them up to 10% over the course of three years. The reason why 10% is, in general if you have 10% of the home that should work as the average down payment in the US. And so once they get up to 10% we partner them with a mortgage broker and they can go out and get a mortgage and then buy out the home using that 10% is their down payment.
Mesh: [00:11:26] And so the way it works for them the benefit that you're giving them [00:22:57] is the ability to purchase a home that they're renting from you and that's the agreement and when you say 10% Equity its ownership in the home, but in addition to for them building up to that 10% they've been paying you rent and that's how you guys make your money.
Adena: [00:11:45] Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, so we're just like a traditional landlord where we make our money off of rent, but we're a little bit of a I would just say like no landlord offers you this - which is just this amazing option which is buying into the house that you're ultimately renting
Mesh: [00:11:59] Right rent to buy traditionally by these folks would even have the option to buy correct the you're giving them the option to buy there is no comparison of what this is for them now.
Adena: [00:12:12] Correct. And so without a doubt to Divvy is a much better option than renting.
Mesh NARR: [00:12:18] The potential here is very exciting, but it is important to realize why traditional options like a mortgage are preferable
Adena: if you can access a mortgage ultimately mortgages [00:24:56] are backed by the government government has kept interest rates the lowest they've been ever and so I can't compete with the government. if you can get a mortgage that is by far the cheapest option because the government subsidizes it. We're very transparent our customers. If you can get a mortgage that is the cheapest option. But we are definitively better than renting.
Mesh NARR: [00:12:49][00:25:49] But even if you don't go the traditional route and instead use Divvy's rent-to-buy model, they are essentialy enabling you to take advantage of the benefits of a traditional mortgage. Once you reach 10% equity in your home in your home with divvy, that value is the equivalent of the average amount you'd use for a down payment. So you've got your down payment. All you need is a mortgage broker, and Divvy helps guide you to one
Adena: [00:13:20] we really look for someone who is going to have an their personal touch with our customers. So we'd like folks who have an office in the local area who will [00:26:50] spend time talking through with our customers with the mortgage experience is going to be like. Because this is a transition now in general when you go from a divvy payment to mortgage payment, like I said mortgages are your cheapest option so you actually step down in payment generally when you go onto a mortgage. So in general, we feel fairly comfortable that our customers will be able to make their mortgage payment but just understanding the commitment that they need to be making is kind of what we do. So today we partner with a few of the major mortgage brokers will introduce our customers to them. Our [00:27:20] customers have the option of who they feel most comfortable working with.
Mesh: [00:14:07] and then what happens to somebody, unfortunate situation happens, you know, just like any potential borrower that goes south. if They can't pay rent anymore. what are they liable for? How do you work it out with them? a bank would take someone's home. They would get evicted if they can't pay their rent. What is the case for Divvy?
Adena: [00:14:28]So the way we work is [00:28:58] if you can't make a payment. The first thing we'll try to do is um figure out why and figure out if maybe we can get you on a payment plan or something to try to get you up to speed if that is looking like it's just not going to be possible. What we do is we do move forward with with an eviction or we break your lease and we will cash you out for half the equity in the home. And the reason why we say half the equity that you've built up in the home is because we've covered closing costs your [00:29:28] inspection fees. Like all move in cost and so there's just a ton of transaction cost with a home. And so we just need to keep that half just to make us sort of break even on the transaction.
Mesh NARR: [00:15:12] I think this company is solving an interesting problem. I'm excited to see them grow. Divvy is currently active in Cleveland, Atlanta and Memphis, but Adena says they're be expanding tremendously next year in 2020. I'll keep you updated as they bring their solutions to new markets. It's crazy to think of the creative ways companies are making home buying possible.
Adena: [00:15:36] the market in real estate Tech has sort of evolved pretty significantly over the last 15 years.[00:31:41]
Mesh NARR: [00:15:41] I'm fascinated with how technology is going to affect this market. Tech companies are great at making things easier. We're already seeing that. You can download the Opendoor app, browse through their listings, and see whichever home whenever you want. Soon you'll even be able to purchase them directly from them. Zillow, a competitor, has similar plans.
[ I cut all the tape here]
Mesh: [00:17:27] Adina, thanks for being on the talk money [00:34:57] podcast very much. Appreciate your time.
Adena: [00:17:32] thank you for having me. Take care.
Mesh NARR: [00:17:34] So there it is. All the things you need to think about about, when buying your first home. The point of this episode was to challenge you. I'm not telling you, go out and buy a home. But hopefully we've equipped you with the knowledge to see if this is the right financial decision. Are you ready to own a home at this time of your life? If you are, great, you have all the tools to get started. And if you're not, that's OK too. Don’t get distracted by folks telling you to go out and buy a home, or that you’re wasting money on rent. Run the numbers, think about it long and hard, and make the best decision for yourself. Everyone’s different. I’m Mesh Lakhani and thank you for joining me for this episode of Talk Money.
I’d like to thank my guests Jordan Ghrist, Marian Rousan, John Teweles and Adena Hefetz for their amazing insight and sharing their knowledge. Please find their information in the show notes. Remember, you can see the written format of this episode on thetalkmoney.com, along with other episodes. Please subscribe to us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you choose to listen . I’d like to also thank my producer and editor Max Miller for his amazing work, and the folks at Anchor. Until next time.